ABC Radio interview with Abdurrahman Wahid

JAKARTA, Former Indonesian President, Abdurrahman Wahid, has lashed out at the country’s current leader, Megawati Sukarnoputri, claiming that she’s unfairly using the latest terrorist attacks to treat some of the country’s fundamentalist Islamic groups as scapegoats.

The ageing cleric, who’s still revered by tens of millions of Indonesian Muslims despite his impeachment in 2001, has told AM that he opposes the death sentence delivered to Bali bomber, Amrozi, although he stresses that he is opposed to the ideals of Jemaah Islamiah.

Former President Wahid spoke to our reporter Nick Mckenzie, and he began by expressing his views on the alleged JI leader, Abu Bakar Bashir.

Wahid: In a way, Abu Bakar Bashir is guilty of hard-lining attitudes towards things in Indonesia.

Mckenzie: If Abu Bakar Bashir is sent to prison is there a risk then that there will be a small uprising or more terrorist attacks?

Wahid: No, no, don’t believe in that.

Mckenzie: Do you think Bali bomber Amrozi deserved the death sentence?

Wahid: No, no, no. He is what you call scapegoat.

Megawati is very weak. In being weak then she will look for scapegoats because it is convenient politically, especially now when the government has much trouble.

Mckenzie: And what about the bombing at the Marriott Hotel? That’s been…

Wahid: The same.

Mckenzie: Jemaah Islamiah have been named as the group…?

Wahid: No, no, no. They are accused because of the interests of the police. Pending the final investigation they should not be accused of anything.

You know, if there is anybody who hates Jemaah Islamiah totally, it is me. But even me, I don’t agree with that.

Mckenzie: Do you think the nature of Islam in Indonesia is becoming more radical?

Wahid: No, no, no. Around 80 percent of them are you see very, very moderate and they don’t like violence.

Mckenzie: That leaves 20 percent. That’s an incredible number in a country of some millions of people.

Wahid: Oh yeah, but you know the rest maybe they are members of extremist groups, but they don’t participate, they don’t participate.

You have to remember two factors in this. One, is that we were governed by a repressive government in the past. The second thing is that the West, in general, has serious mistakes in treating Islam.

Mckenzie: What about Australia’s involvement in helping fight the war on terror in Indonesia? Is that viewed as positive by most Indonesians?

Wahid: Advising our government is okay, but not more. We can take our own affairs.

Mckenzie: Do you think Australia is now a bigger risk, Australians in Indonesia and Australia itself, are a bigger risk of terrorist attacks?

Wahid: No, I don’t believe in that.

Mckenzie: So you think it’s safe for Australians to be in Indonesia?

Wahid: Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, soon we will be able to overcome the terrorism and so forth.

Mckenzie: Finally, Australia has reinstated its military ties with the Indonesian special forces, Kopassus. Do you support this move?

Wahid: In the past, there were many mistakes done by the Kopassus. The co-operation can be used by the Kopassus to subdue opposition.

That was the former Indonesian president, Abdurrahman Wahid, speaking to our reporter Nick Mckenzie.

(http://www.abc.net.au)